Frost for MKX

[Time_Bubbles]

Wrong Sub-Zero. I said time and again it has his alt.

This one.

That looks a lot like Frost's outfit while still being different.

Also, you're incorrect.

Different mask though similar, I will give you that.
Different torso (The shoulders aren't even the same and the bottom and top parts of the torso are different).
Different gloves and armoring.
Different armlets.
Different pants.
No head covering.
Face fully revealed sans mouth.
Lack of neck covering.
Lack of Medallion and Symbol on torso.
Missing the gear Sub-Zero has on his hands.
Far different Belt.

The outfit is very much different in MKX and isn't "just a re-size".

-


It's one more character, you act like I'm suggesting all her moves be a Teleport.

Competitive players would disagree. A Teleport can be very much different from another.

I still disagree, she SHOULD still have some way of freezing opponents just not the way Sub-Zero does it.

It is relevant. You've made it clear that you don't want Frost to have any of her old specials and you continue to ignore how big a teleport would be her and greatly set her apart from Sub-Zero.

They weren't convinced because it was incomplete and looked photoshopped in due to that.

Well, that was a terrible analogy. Cassie is a unique entity (unique appearance, personality, abilities) that bares little to no resemblance to either of her parents, aside from the occasional Cage-esque caustic remark. Frost, on the other hand...

It isn't so... Please take your hate elsewhere.

Also, Frost has a Unique Appearance, Personality as well and she did have a movest COMPLETELY different from Sub-Zero and had some specials that Sub-Zero never had. That's a ton as she's one of the few 3D characters, who did take off others, that was the most unique. Far more than Kira or the such that's for sure.

Fact is that if Frost got in MKX than she would be NOTHING like Sub-Zero just like how Cassie, Jacqui, and Takeda are different from the characters they're based off of.

I'm pretty sure Cassie calling her Elsa was a thinly veiled reference to Frozen, and not her real name.

Anyway I'm sure we'll see more of Frost in future games, she was a critical part of Sub Zero's story post MK4 and there's no reason for that to change seeing as Sub Zero is in the same situation as he was back in the previous timeline.

Indeed and she's his Protege again. Maybe this time death made him a better Sifu and she'll remain loyal to him.

 

[theincubuslord]

Question is, would Frost be powerful enough to actually do a teleport? I know she had one in Armageddon, but it didn't really make sense since she was supposed to not be able to control her powers. And even so, the teleport had nothing to do with her powers at all to begin with.

 

[Kitty_55]

Question is, would Frost be powerful enough to actually do a teleport? I know she had one in Armageddon, but it didn't really make sense since she was supposed to not be able to control her powers. And even so, the teleport had nothing to do with her powers at all to begin with.

That's another reason why I don't want one. She's supposed to be a student. Granted that it's been stated that she's been at the Lin Kuei for years, but we don't know how long it takes for someone to perfect their abilities and how they get trained. An ability like that would mean they have all of their other moves perfected to a point where they don't need training anymore.

It's one more character, you act like I'm suggesting all her moves be a Teleport.

But that's the problem though, IT'S ONE MORE CHARACTER!!! Everyone bickers about how they don't want more cyborgs, more ninjas, more military soldiers, adding one more character to a list of those who can teleport is basically ignoring everyone that doesn't want ANOTHER of something. You want to make her different, ditch the damn teleport and focus on something more unique. Teleporting ain't unique.

And no, I'm not acting as if you want her entire moveset to be nothing but teleport. I have no idea where you came up with that. But you're arguing so much about a dumb move that can easily be given to any other character with some dumb enough reason to have it that you're ignoring all the other potential abilities she can have.

Not to mention, her teleport punch wasn't even original to begin with. It was an adaption of Scorpion's teleport punch. So that's another move that was given to her that was already used by another character. It doesn't make her unique. It basically says at that time, they could only have thought up of one original move for her to have, everything else is a variant of another move that was used from another character.

Competitive players would disagree. A Teleport can be very much different from another.

Yeah it can be different, but it's still a teleport move. Competitive or not, you're still using a variant of a move that six other characters possess. One more is too much, it doesn't make a difference how that teleport is different from the others, it's still the same move and it's hardly a move that I would consider it being "unique."

It's just a move that gets spammed online because no one knows how to do anything else with that character.

I still disagree, she SHOULD still have some way of freezing opponents just not the way Sub-Zero does it.

She shouldn't freeze at all. That is how you make her different from Sub-Zero.

It is relevant. You've made it clear that you don't want Frost to have any of her old specials and you continue to ignore how big a teleport would be her and greatly set her apart from Sub-Zero.

I said I would like to see her ground freeze come back since that's the only move she had in her set that was actually hers and not taken from another character. I never said I want her to ditch everything, her ground freeze, with changes added to them, would be the only thing I'd welcome back. Everything else should be ditched because those moves are not hers. Just because they're variants of other moves doesn't make it hers. She should have completely new moves, ones that makes her look like she's still a student, still getting a hold of her moves.

Her teleporting would not make a difference. I am not ignoring anything, I'm virtually saying that she wouldn't be different at all from another character if she were to have a teleport variant. We are at a time in the series where they need to stop relying on old variants of moves and focus on new things. Erron Black is a HUGE example of this. Almost all of his moves are brand new. This is what I'd like to see with Frost. You don't give her anything that would resemble Sub-Zero at all, you give her something that isn't a freezing move, you give her something that doesn't act like a variant.

Teleports, unfortunately, are variants. They've been used countless of times. Doesn't matter how well you are with the game, how competitive you are, the fact is that it doesn't make her different from Sub-Zero. It's basically saying,"We don't want to experiment with this character, we're just going to take it easy."

As I've said at the end of my last post, which I assumed you didn't read all the way. They've played it way too easy with this character and they need to knock that off. There is no reason why they cannot experiment with this character. They don't need to play it safe with her. If they want two ice wielders in the same game, then experiment, they don't need to take it easy with her when there is a crap load of stuff they can do for her. And giving her a variant of a teleport basically screams that they don't want to try anything new with her. They want to continue playing it safe with her and leave it be like that.

And that is why people do not like her. I don't care if Sub-Zero doesn't have a teleport move, giving her one doesn't make her different. Give her the ability to slow opponents, down, make her shoot icicles, make her use mist, throw snow, anything that doesn't freeze, that doesn't teleport, that doesn't act like a variant of a move we have seen before in this game or in a previous game. THAT is how you make her different.

 

[Misucra]

Wrong Sub-Zero. I said time and again it has his alt.

This one.

That looks a lot like Frost's outfit while still being different.

Also, you're incorrect.

Different mask though similar, I will give you that.
Different torso (The shoulders aren't even the same and the bottom and top parts of the torso are different).
Different gloves and armoring.
Different armlets.
Different pants.
No head covering.
Face fully revealed sans mouth.
Lack of neck covering.
Lack of Medallion and Symbol on torso.
Missing the gear Sub-Zero has on his hands.
Far different Belt.

The outfit is very much different in MKX and isn't "just a re-size".

Oh this one is his alt? (didn't play as sub in DA yet).

That's even less resemblance. He is wearing monk style robe. While his main has at least similar top to Frost.

Different mask though similar, I will give you that.
Different torso (The shoulders aren't even the same and the bottom and top parts of the torso are different).
Different gloves and armoring.
Different armlets.
Different pants.
No head covering.
Face fully revealed sans mouth.
Lack of neck covering.
Lack of Medallion and Symbol on torso.
Missing the gear Sub-Zero has on his hands.
Far different Belt.

You basically just said the same thing I said, just with microscope attached.

I don't count head as it is Frost trademark (jeez that make up)

as for the other things...

"Different mask though similar, I will give you that." - That's the same mask. Minus belts holding onto head. That's exactly the same mask. Just smaller and made fit for Frost. I bet my years of experience as artist on that. When I see same model, I know it.
"Different torso (The shoulders aren't even the same and the bottom and top parts of the torso are different)." - What I wrote before:

Resized and refitted to fit Frost and give illusion of "different". Lower Shoulder pads are more dragged out than on Subbies

Also I give you that she has a more simple apron thingy (forgot how it is called). The which is hanging from her behind and in front. That part is way more simple. Even so apart that and undershirt (which only reaches neck) the top has the same elements they are just resized and dragged out more, which makes top look "different" yet if I were to push all things in place I would get the same top as Subbie.
"Different gloves and armoring." - and what did I say? unique model, but poor work on model itself (but ok to be fair. It is something unique)
"Different armlets." - Ma'am... with all due respect. That's the same armlets as Sub Zero. Just smaller in size. And they wrap up around her arm, while Sub Zero's kinda "hang" in the air. Hell you can see that they have the same decoration on top. Pretty much the only difference is that her armlets don't hang in air.

"Different pants." - I take it back. Pants are not recycled. They are actually the same. Just minus the belts and Frost pants are skin tight.

On Frost pants there are no horizontal belts. And again Sub Zero's pants are like a bag, while Frost ones are skintight. Even so texture is the same. So my argument stays the same. Resized and made fit for Frost.

"No head covering."
"Face fully revealed sans mouth."
"Lack of neck covering."
Like I said. Frost's head glued on Sub Zero's recycled costume.

"Lack of Medallion and Symbol on torso."
"Missing the gear Sub-Zero has on his hands."
Which translates to - less detail on Frost, cause she is NPC. That I mentioned before.
"Far different Belt." - To tell you the truth it doesn't even look like a belt. More like a leather sash. But ok for the sake of argument. Yeah it is different. But a very simple model. Again just looks like they said:
Lets take out detailed Sub Zero belt and just add some simple cylinder form belt for Frost.

Also to add with boots. I also take it back. Same boots. Minus belts. Jeez. Biggest difference between Sub Zero outfit and Frost. Less random belts.

In short. I will repeat myself. This is Sub Zero's costume. They just did the same thing I do when I am recycling models. Take the original model. Take out what is unnecessary, mix up few things, stretch or drag out/push in few elements and Vuola! "Different" model.

 

[Misucra]

That's another reason why I don't want one. She's supposed to be a student. Granted that it's been stated that she's been at the Lin Kuei for years, but we don't know how long it takes for someone to perfect their abilities and how they get trained. An ability like that would mean they have all of their other moves perfected to a point where they don't need training anymore.

An ability like that would mean they have all of their other moves perfected to a point where they don't need training anymore.

You can't perfect something to the point it doesn't need improvement. Even in original timeline Sub Zero would always find something to learn. Hell it is common knowledge in any kind of (real life) martial arts. Improvement always can be made, no matter how skilled you are.

Also why in Raiden's name you make sound Teleport like such a big deal? You want to tell me that some crazy a$$ chick with barely any intelligence like Mileena can do teleports, but Frost who is considered Prodigy and spends YEARS under Sub Zero, needs to go Super Sayajin with power level OVER 9000 to learn how to transport her from one place to another?

 

[Commander]

On Frost pants there are no horizontal belts. And again Sub Zero's pants are like a bag, while Frost ones are skintight. Even so texture is the same. So my argument stays the same. Resized and made fit for Frost.

"No head covering."
"Face fully revealed sans mouth."
"Lack of neck covering."
Like I said. Frost's head glued on Sub Zero's recycled costume.

"Lack of Medallion and Symbol on torso."
"Missing the gear Sub-Zero has on his hands."
Which translates to - less detail on Frost, cause she is NPC. That I mentioned before.
"Far different Belt." - To tell you the truth it doesn't even look like a belt. More like a leather sash. But ok for the sake of argument. Yeah it is different. But a very simple model. Again just looks like they said:
Lets take out detailed Sub Zero belt and just add some simple cylinder form belt for Frost.

Also to add with boots. I also take it back. Same boots. Minus belts. Jeez. Biggest difference between Sub Zero outfit and Frost. Less random belts.

In short. I will repeat myself. This is Sub Zero's costume. They just did the same thing I do when I am recycling models. Take the original model. Take out what is unnecessary, mix up few things, stretch or drag out/push in few elements and Vuola! "Different" model.

Agreed 100%.
Frost in MKX looks like nothing more than a mere copy-paste of the unhooded "Unbreakable" Sub-Zero variation with that costume, which is the last thing that I was hoping for, given that Frost has been given a clean slate for MKX.

 

[Kitty_55]

Also why in Raiden's name you make sound Teleport like such a big deal? You want to tell me that some crazy a$$ chick with barely any intelligence like Mileena can do teleports, but Frost who is considered Prodigy and spends YEARS under Sub Zero, needs to go Super Sayajin with power level OVER 9000 to learn how to transport her from one place to another?

My point that I feel like everyone who argues against my reasoning doesn't read anything I type. I get it, I write too much, but what's what I do. But I would like for people to actually understand my point and I get the impression that neither of you two understands why I'm against this.

It has little to do with how she is trained, but more so that we already have a handful of characters that are doing this move, adding one more would be too much.

It doesn't make a different how intelligent Mileena is, she already has several teleport moves. Raiden is another that has a variation that focuses on teleporting and then you have three other characters that can teleport. Why add one more when all that time that goes into creating the damn move could be gone into time to make an entirely new move that we've never seen?

Frost's teleport isn't a signature move, there is no reason for her to have it. And i'm not trying to make it sound like if she learned how to go from once place to another, it means she has more of a better grasp of her powers than Sub-Zero, no, that is not what I am trying to say. I don't feel like that is a move that she needs to have because there are a heck of a lot of other stuff she can do that isn't something we've seen from time to time.

 

[Misucra]

Agreed 100%.
Frost in MKX looks like nothing more than a mere copy-paste of the unhooded "Unbreakable" Sub-Zero variation with that costume, which is the last thing that I was hoping for, given that Frost has been given a clean slate for MKX.

And that is what made me upset. Barely any work on costume and basically same fate to Frost just under different conditions.

But ok I am trying to keep myself positive. Even so I am not sure if I will be able to wait long enough for Frost, if PC version will stay the same.

Also I am interested in how much of original model they used. So once I get tools for modding I will extract both models and will see just how much work they put on Frost. That will be the moment of truth... oh wth. Pictures are here in front of me.
I don't wanna think Sub Zero then I see Frost, but I just can't because that's how it actually is. I will seriously murder someone from NRS (on MK) if they will decide to use this costume as her default playable.

 

[Misucra]

My point that I feel like everyone who argues against my reasoning doesn't read anything I type. I get it, I write too much, but what's what I do. But I would like for people to actually understand my point and I get the impression that neither of you two understands why I'm against this.

It has little to do with how she is trained, but more so that we already have a handful of characters that are doing this move, adding one more would be too much.

It doesn't make a different how intelligent Mileena is, she already has several teleport moves. Raiden is another that has a variation that focuses on teleporting and then you have three other characters that can teleport. Why add one more when all that time that goes into creating the damn move could be gone into time to make an entirely new move that we've never seen?

Frost's teleport isn't a signature move, there is no reason for her to have it. And i'm not trying to make it sound like if she learned how to go from once place to another, it means she has more of a better grasp of her powers than Sub-Zero, no, that is not what I am trying to say. I don't feel like that is a move that she needs to have because there are a heck of a lot of other stuff she can do that isn't something we've seen from time to time.

Yes I tended to write novels few years ago. I know that feel. As for teleport. I can only say this.
I am on your side then it comes to teleports where character vanishes off screen and then appears from the other side or from the top.
Even so as I said I didn't see a single character in MKX which would move from one place to another on screen. And hell the idea I am having at least? I don't think it can be called teleport at all.

As I said before, I was suggesting for Frost not disappear completely, but convert her... to her ground freeze. You know. "Her style" freezing on MK DA. Just this time not to freeze someone, but just go around the opponent. You could still see her on screen, just in different shape. Basically something similar to Noob Saibot shadow which also likes to travel through the ground. But Noob is dead! So F him and let's give that to Frost!

 

[Commander]

And that is what made me upset. Barely any work on costume and basically same fate to Frost just under different conditions.

Yeah, Frost essentially had a similar fate in MKX as her Deadly Alliance ending, just a little different.
I forgot about that. :laugh:

 

[Misucra]

Yeah, Frost essentially had a similar fate in MKX as her Deadly Alliance ending, just a little different.
I forgot about that. :laugh:

And Deception.... and people were surprised why I was so mad about it.

P.S actually deception ending was basically the same thing as MKX. Sub Zero personally froze her there too.

 

[Kitty_55]

Yes I tended to write novels few years ago. I know that feel. As for teleport. I can only say this.
I am on your side then it comes to teleports where character vanishes off screen and then appears from the other side or from the top.
Even so as I said I didn't see a single character in MKX which would move from one place to another on screen. And hell the idea I am having at least? I don't think it can be called teleport at all.

As I said before, I was suggesting for Frost not disappear completely, but convert her... to her ground freeze. You know. "Her style" freezing on MK DA. Just this time not to freeze someone, but just go around the opponent. You could still see her on screen, just in different shape. Basically something similar to Noob Saibot shadow which also likes to travel through the ground. But Noob is dead! So F him and let's give that to Frost!

I just don't want it to be a variant of something we've seen before. That's essentially all I am hoping for.

I guess if she HAS to have some form, it would be cool to see her transform into mist and charge into her opponent, and an enhancement of that move would either be that it hurts the opponent, she does some random attack, or it could slow down an enemy.

 

[Misucra]

I just don't want it to be a variant of something we've seen before. That's essentially all I am hoping for.

I guess if she HAS to have some form, it would be cool to see her transform into mist and charge into her opponent, and an enhancement of that move would either be that it hurts the opponent, she does some random attack, or it could slow down an enemy.

NOW we are communicating. That's exactly what I am talking. Hell remember when I mentioned her running towards the opponent and suddenly shattering as opponent is about to attack?
Put your idea and mine together and...

Basic move: Frost runs towards opponent, shatters and turns into mist. Appears behind the opponent.
Enhanced move: Frost runs towards opponent, shatters and turns into mist. Appears behind the opponent, grabs him and...

 

[Kitty_55]

I'm essentially thinking of all the moves I've gave this character, which is only a rough draft sadly, I've been trying to design an even better primary with an assassin-like secondary.

Her name is Glacier. She doesn't freeze but she uses icicles, mist and snow in various ways. Moves that I would have liked to see Frost OR Sub-Zero possess but neither has.

She is NOT a Mortal Kombat fan character, more so my own fighting game I've been creating ever since I took part in MKO's create a character two years ago with my witch doctor.

 

[Misucra]

I'm essentially thinking of all the moves I've gave this character, which is only a rough draft sadly, I've been trying to design an even better primary with an assassin-like secondary.

Her name is Glacier. She doesn't freeze but she uses icicles, mist and snow in various ways. Moves that I would have liked to see Frost OR Sub-Zero possess but neither has.

She is NOT a Mortal Kombat fan character, more so my own fighting game I've been creating ever since I took part in MKO's create a character two years ago with my witch doctor.

Niiiiice. Those Leg Guards look like some serious Pain.

 

[p.W]

On another note.

Frost is one of the few characters who got a vast improvement to her model, like Cassie did, after her initial appearance.

Compare the Original to the Final Version.

Original

View attachment 8364

Final

That's a ton of extra work to put in someone whose supposed to just be an NPC, no?

Now compare her to Baraka.

Much more detailed than Baraka.

"Look at how different these two identical Frost costumes look under different lighting conditions!"

"Now look at how much more detailed Frost's entire body is than Baraka's head and shoulders!"

:rofl:

I feel for [MENTION=16568]Misucra[/MENTION] and [MENTION=16500]Kitty_55[/MENTION]. I only have to read this ass-clown's comments when I go out looking for entertainment. They're stuck with him in their favorite thread.

 

[Misucra]

"Look at how different these two identical Frost costumes look under different lighting conditions!"

"Now look at how much more detailed Frost's entire body is than Baraka's head and shoulders!"

:rofl:

I feel for [MENTION=16568]Misucra[/MENTION] and [MENTION=16500]Kitty_55[/MENTION]. I only have to read this person's comments when I go out looking for entertainment. They're stuck with him in their favorite thread.

Wow wow. [MENTION=18661]p.W[/MENTION] no insults. He (She?) and I have different opinions. I am actually happy I get to discuss this at all, instead of usual comments I got, when I started this Thread.

So once again. I will ask you to avoid insults. Let's be polite to each other.

 

[Kitty_55]

Thanks, still working on her, but you get the reason for trying to change Frost to make her be completely different from Sub-Zero. While I don't necessarily agree with teleporting, the idea you came up, as well as me contributing to it, that would work. I guess it's more so, I'd rather have her not disappear entirely off the screen. The farthest I'll go is having her turn transparent as mist or frost or snow. I just don't want her to go completely off-screen because well... my defense has been stated for the last two pages.

But I do agree with the whole, they should change her outfit and put more effort into the details and such with her.

Like I've mentioned before, I feel like she should earn her blue colors by making her mostly black. That shows that she's still a student, despite that she's been under Sub-Zero's wings for a few years. There's no need to give her a completely similar appearance to another character. Takeda wasn't even that similar towards Scorpion, so there is no reason why they need to do it to Frost.

 

[Misucra]

Thanks, still working on her, but you get the reason for trying to change Frost to make her be completely different from Sub-Zero. While I don't necessarily agree with teleporting, the idea you came up, as well as me contributing to it, that would work. I guess it's more so, I'd rather have her not disappear entirely off the screen. The farthest I'll go is having her turn transparent as mist or frost or snow. I just don't want her to go completely off-screen because well... my defense has been stated for the last two pages.

But I do agree with the whole, they should change her outfit and put more effort into the details and such with her.

Like I've mentioned before, I feel like she should earn her blue colors by making her mostly black. That shows that she's still a student, despite that she's been under Sub-Zero's wings for a few years. There's no need to give her a completely similar appearance to another character. Takeda wasn't even that similar towards Scorpion, so there is no reason why they need to do it to Frost.

Well present day Takeda, just has that Shirai Ryu headband, but his body is heavily armored in some high tech armor (obviously not Shirai Ryu stuff) So Frost also could do some serious change. As we just saw her 5 years ago when she was a student. Now she might have a huge design overhaul, just like Takeda.

 

[Kitty_55]

That is if they take that into consideration rather than giving her the outfit in the cutscene. I wouldn't be bothered by if they were to give her the other Lin Kuei outfit that we've seen with the guards since they are different from Sub-Zero's outfit and it does show that she's still Lin Kuei. Not sure how much you would be, but for me, I wouldn't be bothered because it is different.

If they were making the effort to give Tanya, Sarena and Li Mei of all characters to look different, there was no reason for them to not make Frost stand out. Yes, she's wearing something different than her previous attire, but she's still looking like Sub-Zero again and that's not making an effort to change her. They need to stop that with her.