Do you think Kitana and Mileena would make the cut?

[GloriousDK]

I can't give "Thanks" at the moment, but kudos to your 2nd paragraph.
My wife loves Mortal Kombat as well, and we did some casual MK9 matches.
She saw Kitana, Mileena and Sonya in MK9 and was like "I don't ever remember them dressing like that in previous Mortal Kombat games (mainly referring to Mileena)."
She couldn't relate to any of them, because it didn't seem logical to wear that in a fight, especially the high heels.
When we both saw the gameplay videos of Cassie Cage and D'Vorah, she actually saw 2 female characters that she could identify with in MK X.

And I really would like to expand on this. The concept of the male power fantasy. That's really what MK is all about. However, it is RARE that you ever see female power fantasies in the media. It really is rare. The biggest one I can remember off the top of my head is Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies or Ripley from Alien. We play Mortal Kombat to fantasize about being powerful and I think that the direction they're going with Cassie and D'Vorah invites women and other genders to enjoy sharing in that fantasy. Now women can play as Cassie and be like, "Yes. This is me. This is me kicking the ass of my ninja boyfriend because if people could do this kind of stuff in real life, this is exactly how I'd go about doing it." Cassie Cage so far as I've seen is a great example of Mortal Kombat going back to the roots of the female combatants who dressed for the occasion. Even in MK 2, Kitana and Mileena dressed for the fight. They fought in leotards. Something that I think we can all agree that perhaps many women would pick for the occasion of a professional fight short of a tank top and boxing shorts.

 

[GloriousDK]

I never said the different context was right here. I was using it as an example of showing what Critical sounded like. It didn't sound that bad in the context he was saying it in, but put it in a different context and it shows how illogical it is.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

I've never played Blood Rayne, so I can't say much about that, but a lot of characters who are objectified are seen as much more than an object. Like, if you take away their appearance from the equation and just look at their stories, they can stand alone. When the character is literally nothing more than a pair of walking tits, that's when I start to see it as objectification. Otherwise, I just see it as distasteful.

Well yeah, that is true. You COULD say that you could remove the overt sexual pandering of the women of MK and still have some good characters with a lot of feminine appeal.

 

[iViTal]

In that case, if you don't care about how she's designed, then you wont mind her being in perhaps a full blown purple kung fu suit with like... nothing sexual at all about it. Everything else would stay the same though... you know with her fighting style and how she's supposed to pretend to be Kitana to mislead everyone. Nothing else changes, but now she's dressed as a nun or something.

Point is, if you don't care, that's you. But a lot of people DO care and just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it invalidates the critiques and complaints people would have with it.

Honestly, I still don't care, and I don't feel like arguing in an attempt to bring people into perspective. It's useless and pointless because of how stubborn and close minded people are here at times.

Her portrayal in MK9 was that of a sex object. She literally did nothing else but walk around in a stripper outfit while giggling and touching herself.

Yea, you're right. You win, I lose.

It wasn't like she was any better in the other games. I was hooked and sold to MK9's Mileena.

 

[GloriousDK]

Oh I'm sorry this "serious" discussion about clothes or women integrity or whatever the fvck is not really that serious.

Where were you people when Dead or Alive came out with a volleyball game or when the game developers made Rumbling Roses. Hell in Street Fighter Cammy wears a goddamn leotard that shows off her ass all the time.

Yet here you MK fans are complaining about costume designs in a damn video game.

You realize that NRS could have taken it a step further and just put them in bikinis in Dead or Alive right? Amped it up with more jiggling physics too. But no, they choose to put those types of outfits on them because of the whole reboot thing.

Whatever. If you guys really hate hiw women are portayed in MK thtough fvcking clothes then pick the classic costumes.

Shit.

/rant

Oh thank goodness they did us all a favor by not going full on DoA, am I right? When DoA came out, I think I was too poor to have internet connections to share my thoughts on it. Leotards aren't inherently bad though. Though I do agree that they lay on the cheese cake for Cammie by giving her a perma-wedgie.

Why are you so mad that a more mature and grown up fanbase is calling shenanigans on this stuff? If it doesn't bother you about how they're designed, then why are you trying to tone shame people who it does bother? Should they say nothing at all? Clearly because if they DID listen to the complaints and didn't sexualize the female characters, it wouldn't bother you one way or the other. It changes NOTHING about your experience, but yet those that would like to see this improvement of better representation of women in the game would have their gaming experienced improved. Sooo.. again. Why are you telling us to shut up if it doesn't concern you? Unless it does.

 

[Ricochetmatt]

Oh I'm sorry this "serious" discussion about clothes or women integrity or whatever the fvck is not really that serious.

Where were you people when Dead or Alive came out with a volleyball game or when the game developers made Rumbling Roses. Hell in Street Fighter Cammy wears a goddamn leotard that shows off her ass all the time.

Yet here you MK fans are complaining about costume designs in a damn video game.

You realize that NRS could have taken it a step further and just put them in bikinis in Dead or Alive right? Amped it up with more jiggling physics too. But no, they choose to put those types of outfits on them because of the whole reboot thing.

Whatever. If you guys really hate hiw women are portayed in MK thtough fvcking clothes then pick the classic costumes.

Shit.

/rant

The objectification of women isn't serious to you? Goes to show what kind of person you are, I guess. If it doesn't effect you, it isn't a problem, right?

I never knew about the Dead or Alive volleyball game until it was already sitting in a bargain bin at Gamestop (mind you, that game is relatively despised and made fun of by most gamers). And I never liked Street Fighter so I pay no attention to it.

If you had any real respect for NRS and this series, the God awful costume designs used to sell sex while tediously avoiding any real substantial content for said characters WOULD bother you. But you don't care and so I ask you... why are you even here? You don't even care enough to admit that there's a real problem with the series.

You clearly have no f***ing idea as to what this conversation is really about or how the problem effects the series.

 

[GloriousDK]

Honestly, I still don't care, and I don't feel like arguing in an attempt to bring people into perspective. It's useless and pointless because of how stubborn and close minded people are here at times.



Yea, you're right. You win, I lose.

It wasn't like she was any better in the other games. I was hooked and sold to MK9's Mileena.

If it doesn't bother you, then what do you have to lose by having the female characters be better represented? Why do you care to chime in and man-splain to us why it doesn't matter if all the women in MK are strippers? It doesn't bother you either way, but it bothers US who do care about these issues. So why can't we just have it with better representation since it wouldn't change your experience anyway?

 

[YungQ94]

Oh thank goodness they did us all a favor by not going full on DoA, am I right? When DoA came out, I think I was too poor to have internet connections to share my thoughts on it. Leotards aren't inherently bad though. Though I do agree that they lay on the cheese cake for Cammie by giving her a perma-wedgie.

Why are you so mad that a more mature and grown up fanbase is calling shenanigans on this stuff? If it doesn't bother you about how they're designed, then why are you trying to tone shame people who it does bother? Should they say nothing at all? Clearly because if they DID listen to the complaints and didn't sexualize the female characters, it wouldn't bother you one way or the other. It changes NOTHING about your experience, but yet those that would like to see this improvement of better representation of women in the game would have their gaming experienced improved. Sooo.. again. Why are you telling us to shut up if it doesn't concern you? Unless it does.

The objectification of women isn't serious to you? Goes to show what kind of person you are, I guess. If it doesn't effect you, it isn't a problem, right?

I never knew about the Dead or Alive volleyball game until it was already sitting in a bargain bin at Gamestop (mind you, that game is relatively despised and made fun of by most gamers). And I never liked Street Fighter so I pay no attention to it.

If you had any real respect for NRS and this series, the God awful costume designs used to sell sex while tediously avoiding any real substantial content for said characters WOULD bother you. But you don't care and so I ask you... why are you even here? You don't even care enough to admit that there's a real problem with the series.

You clearly have no f***ing idea as to what this conversation is really about or how the problem effects the series.

You both are on the same page which is lovely. Anyway let me tell you both something: how they are design is bothering YOU. You're right. I don't give a shit about how they are designed because guess what? I play the game because it is a FIGHTING GAME. I want to beat my opponent, not talk about how female costume designs ruined the franchise.

Oh and another thing since you're saying that I have no respect for the series. Why did you buy the game huh?

Even if you didn't see Mileena's TP costume before hand why did you still play it? As soon as you saw Kitana or Jade you should have ejected the disk and sold your copy then and there. You didn't because it doesn't bother yet you still complain about it like its a big deal. If NRS was using sex to sell the game then it worked cause you fvcking bought it.

My whole point is that you guys are making nothing big into something fvcking humongous. You should play MK with the motivation of fighting other people, completing the story or just to have a good time.

Arguing about female integrity or how women are portrayed. Fvck outta here.

 

[iViTal]

If it doesn't bother you, then what do you have to lose by having the female characters be better represented? Why do you care to chime in and man-splain to us why it doesn't matter if all the women in MK are strippers? It doesn't bother you either way, but it bothers US who do care about these issues. So why can't we just have it with better representation since it wouldn't change your experience anyway?

Because your request for a changing in representation is dumb, MK is a fighting game. If you care more so about the designs of the characters vs winning your match your priorities are out of line.

I love MK just as much as you do, but I don't see how improving the representation of women within the game alter the experience of winning or losing a match against the AI or another human player.

 

[GloriousDK]

You both are on the same page which is lovely. Anyway let me tell you both something: how they are design is bothering YOU. You're right. I don't give a shit about how they are designed because guess what? I play the game because it is a FIGHTING GAME. I want to beat my opponent, not talk about how female costume designs ruined the franchise.

No. You just don't care. Contrary to your comfort zone, there ARE fans who forgo the issues because right now, this really is all we get at the moment. Luckily, there are female characters coming out that are better representatives.

Oh and another thing since you're saying that I have no respect for the series. Why did you buy the game huh?

Even if you didn't see Mileena's TP costume before hand why did you still play it? As soon as you saw Kitana or Jade you should have ejected the disk and sold your copy then and there. You didn't because it doesn't bother yet you still complain about it like its a big deal. If NRS was using sex to sell the game then it worked cause you fvcking bought it.

We still love the game. It's not a matter of moral imperative. It's a matter of better representation of women. They seem to be doing something like that right now. Why are you worried? But we're talking about MK9 at the moment, so yeah. The subject is valid.

My whole point is that you guys are making nothing big into something fvcking humongous. You should play MK with the motivation of fighting other people, completing the story or just to have a good time.

You don't know our minds and you don't have the right to tell us how to enjoy something. You lose NOTHING in your experience if the women are better represented, but yet, you're fighting against an issue in which you admit you have no stake in. That is really weird.

Arguing about female integrity or how women are portrayed. Fvck outta here.

Tell you what. Why don't you tell us a good reason why the representation of women in the game SHOULDN'T be improved or that maybe they SHOULD be more sexualized than they already are. Since I'm starting to get the impression that you protest too much for someone who doesn't care about how the women are portrayed. So enlighten us as to why it's important that we shut up and that the representation of women, basically in ALL fighting games shouldn't even be improved. Give us a GOOD reason.

 

[GloriousDK]

Because your request for a changing in representation is dumb, MK is a fighting game. If you care more so about the designs of the characters vs winning your match your priorities are out of line.

I love MK just as much as you do, but I don't see how improving the representation of women within the game alter the experience of winning or losing a match against the AI or another human player.

That is ed up. Basically you're simply saying that it shouldn't be done because it doesn't matter to you. Look, just because you're unaffected and it doesn't bother you doesn't mean that that's the universal experience for all the fans. It's NOT dumb and you know, telling someone that their priorities are ed up because they don't match yours isn't how it works. I think you protest the point simply because you personally don't like to think about it. BUT the reality of the situation is that despite the fact that you just seem to not care, it matters to a good portion of the fans anyway and you're telling them that they should just kick rocks because you personally couldn't be bothered to think about it. It's fine. That's why you have fans like us to do the thinking about those issues FOR YOU. We all want a better game and design is a very important part of that.

You literally lose NOTHING of women being better represented because you personally don't care, but somehow those that care should forgo it because somehow, Mileena or Kitana being better represented is going to up how effective Scorpion's spear is. Come the hell on, guy.

 

[iViTal]

That is ed up. Basically you're simply saying that it shouldn't be done because it doesn't matter to you. Look, just because you're unaffected and it doesn't bother you doesn't mean that that's the universal experience for all the fans. It's NOT dumb and you know, telling someone that their priorities are ed up because they don't match yours isn't how it works. I think you protest the point simply because you personally don't like to think about it. BUT the reality of the situation is that despite the fact that you just seem to not care, it matters to a good portion of the fans anyway and you're telling them that they should just kick rocks because you personally couldn't be bothered to think about it. It's fine. That's why you have fans like us to do the thinking about those issues FOR YOU. We all want a better game and design is a very important part of that.

You literally lose NOTHING of women being better represented because you personally don't care, but somehow those that care should forgo it because somehow, Mileena or Kitana being better represented is going to up how effective Scorpion's spear is. Come the hell on, guy.

Yup, I'd rather conserve my thinking for making reads on my opponent and outplaying them mentally because MK is a fighting game, and I enjoy playing it at the highest possible level that I can achieve.

The game design is more so about the mechanics it has to offer, not to nick pick about the amount of clothing Kitana and Mileena has on during the story mode. I respect the story, and I respect the game, but I care more about the gameplay opposed to the visual representation.

I don't care because I have the right to not care, and I have the right to call your request for change dumb because It's my opinion on the subject and that's why I defend my argument.

 

[YungQ94]

Tell you what. Why don't you tell us a good reason why the representation of women in the game SHOULDN'T be improved or that maybe they SHOULD be more sexualized than they already are. Since I'm starting to get the impression that you protest too much for someone who doesn't care about how the women are portrayed. So enlighten us as to why it's important that we shut up and that the representation of women, basically in ALL fighting games shouldn't even be improved. Give us a GOOD reason.

I don't protest that much. I only protedt if the subject is dumb.

Anyway a good reason:

Because it works. Because at the end of the day, you'll still play the game regardless if you pick that character or not. Sure you have moderately dressed girls like chun li and Rose but you still have characters like Mileena or Mai from King of Fighters. It's a choice to pick them.

Also that the aesthetics aren't that important to the design because you gain nothing from it when it comes to fighting another person online or offline. People don't pick Cammy and continue to play her because she has a nice ass or wears a leotard; its because she is a damn good fighting game character. Dame thing with Morrigan in UMVC3. Very sexualized but a really damn good character that people choose to play because she is good in that game. Albeit not a lot of people can play her correctly because she takes a lot of work.

Anyway back to MK. Critical-Limit has a very solid Jade that bodies me for free most the time. He is comfortable with that character's PLAY STYLE. He didn't just choose her because she has big tits or a stripper outfit.he picked her cause she had a good play style for him.

To conclude, the design can change to whatever the hell they want for the females. Its all about if you like how the character can play that suits the player rather than how they can wear an outfit.

 

[GloriousDK]

Yup, I'd rather conserve my thinking for making reads on my opponent and outplaying them mentally because MK is a fighting game.

Then you wouldn't mind one bit if say... scorpion was designed to be in a bikini bottom and slave harness. And when he wins the match he seductively rubs the tip of his spear along his slightly revealed ass crack while winking at you. And let's just do that with EVERY male character. Instead of embracing the male power fantasy for the male characters, let's make them all different kinds of strippers. I mean. You don't care, so it should be no problem for you. Perhaps Johnny cage could wear a very saggy pair of karate pants that shows a cute tattoo where his bush should have been and perhaps when he wins the fight, he seductively rubs his hands down his rock hard abs. Let's see the game depict the males in ways that women and bisexual and homosexual people would fantasies about men. We'll just do that. You shouldn't have a problem with it because you're here to win.

 

[GloriousDK]

I don't protest that much. I only protedt if the subject is dumb.

Anyway a good reason:

Because it works. Because at the end of the day, you'll still play the game regardless if you pick that character or not. Sure you have moderately dressed girls like chun li and Rose but you still have characters like Mileena or Mai from King of Fighters. It's a choice to pick them.

Also that the aesthetics aren't that important to the design because you gain nothing from it when it comes to fighting another person online or offline. People don't pick Cammy and continue to play her because she has a nice ass or wears a leotard; its because she is a damn good fighting game character. Dame thing with Morrigan in UMVC3. Very sexualized but a really damn good character that people choose to play because she is good in that game. Albeit not a lot of people can play her correctly because she takes a lot of work.

Anyway back to MK. Critical-Limit has a very solid Jade that bodies me for free most the time. He is comfortable with that character's PLAY STYLE. He didn't just choose her because she has big tits or a stripper outfit.he picked her cause she had a good play style for him.

To conclude, the design can change to whatever the hell they want for the females. Its all about if you like how the character can play that suits the player rather than how they can wear an outfit.

Then refer to my post about making the men more sexual instead of representing a male power fantasy. YOU shouldn't care. But I bet there's a part of you that would not like the game just as much because you probably wouldn't enjoy every match you win having Shang Tsung invite you in for a bit of playful touching.

I'm calling it. It DOES matter. The best you have is to basically tell others that it doesn't matter at all and it's not important, but you don't have a good reason to say otherwise as to why we shouldn't represent the women better. I find it strange that you two are so bothered about such a seemingly unimportant tweak to the game. It's almost as if you get off on the idea that women actually ARE represented in a deplorable way in the game.

 

[iViTal]

Then you wouldn't mind one bit if say... scorpion was designed to be in a bikini bottom and slave harness. And when he wins the match he seductively rubs the tip of his spear along his slightly revealed ass crack while winking at you. And let's just do that with EVERY male character. Instead of embracing the male power fantasy for the male characters, let's make them all different kinds of strippers. I mean. You don't care, so it should be no problem for you. Perhaps Johnny cage could wear a very saggy pair of karate pants that shows a cute tattoo where his bush should have been and perhaps when he wins the fight, he seductively rubs his hands down his rock hard abs. Let's see the game depict the males in ways that women and bisexual and homosexual people would fantasies about men. We'll just do that. You shouldn't have a problem with it because you're here to win.

Read my edit, and Nah wouldn't mind at all as long as he had his solid D1 to Anti-Air people who jump, and the 50/50 vortex.

 

[YungQ94]

Ah a deplorable debate strategy if it had worked.

See that posted would have made since IF they did that in the original MKs. They wouldn't reboot it just to have the men as strippers too. The designs are going off past MKs.

You know I think I'll stop here before you try to bring up if there was a gay character or something. If you care so much about how women are viewed through design or male fanasties then great.

That won't stop me from throttling your asses online in MKX

 

[GloriousDK]

Yup, I'd rather conserve my thinking for making reads on my opponent and outplaying them mentally because MK is a fighting game, and I enjoy playing it at the highest possible level that I can achieve.

The game design is more so about the mechanics it has to offer, not to nick pick about the amount of clothing Kitana and Mileena has on during the story mode. I respect the story, and I respect the game, but I care more about the gameplay opposed to the visual representation.

I don't care because I have the right to not care, and I have the right to call your request for change dumb because It's my opinion on the subject and that's why I defend my argument.

If you don't care, that's fine. But a lot of people do care. Yet you wont weigh in on the idea that the men be specifically designed, not just to be a good character, but also to titillate gay men and women. You haven't addressed it. I think despite your reasons, it would certainly get on your nerves to see the male characters blatantly sexualized instead of representing the male power fantasy.

You don't have a good reason short of saying you don't care. But MK isn't JUST for you. Fans like all kinds of different aspects of the game, not just the fighting mechanics. So some fans are saying we'd like to see the representation improved but yet I bet you HARDLY protest at those same fans maybe saying they hope NRS improves the design of Scorpion or Sub Zero to look more like ninjas instead of knights. Think about why you want to go after this, but yet you most likely don't talk this much about people discussing the designs of the men.

I think you two have something much more invested in trying to shut people up who talk about the costume designs of the women. I've complained before about the designs of Scorpion in the past and I've NEVER seen anyone chime in and tell me to shut up because I thought he was too armored. But yet we bring in the representation of women in the game and all of a sudden, we gotta hash this out while you two fight over it with a couple of people who care and you insist that you don't care, but here you are... arguing over it.

All you could have said was "Yeah, for the fans that it matters to, I hope they do improve on that aspect because all the fans should have a chance to enjoy the game."

But you two didn't do that. You told us to shut up about it because it doesn't matter to you. If it didn't matter to you, you wouldn't be arguing with us about it.

 

[GloriousDK]

Ah a deplorable debate strategy if it had worked.

See that posted would have made since IF they did that in the original MKs. They wouldn't reboot it just to have the men as strippers too. The designs are going off past MKs.

Sonya was fully clothed all the way up to UMK3 and the ninja women wore leotards and face masks with gloves and long boots. Sure they were kinda sexy, but not to the level of what happened in MK9 where Sonya was running around in a bullet proof vest with her tits nearly falling out cause I guess she didn't have time to throw on a tank top. I haven't said anything about Sonya's alternate costume because even though she did have short shorts on, that makes more sense with her having that and a tank top than her running into combat with her breasts almost falling out of her vest cause she didn't wear a tank top or some sort of protective covering. You guys know they design the women now in a sexual manner, and yet for those that say it doesn't matter, you persist in shutting up those that say it does.

 

[Tarkatan Trash]

Sonya's alternate carriers the stain of Annihilation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

 

[GloriousDK]

Sonya's alternate carriers the stain of Annihilation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk

Well it was a lame costume design to be sure anyway. But you have to admit that it was tasteful in the sense that you can point out several women who actually DO dress like that in real life. At least it was believable.