Pro Gun Anti-Gun

People shouldn't own guns. Period.

When the shit hits the fan and alien invaders are storming the streets... THEN we can go out and buy some guns.

I've met some gun owners that are ****ing nuts and dangerous.
 
I find it extremely hard to believe that those of you who are anti-gun do not see that no matter what we do there will always be some nut with a gun.
We could destroy all the weapons in the world but someone would find a way to make one, then another, then another, and bam. Back to square one.
We are never going to be able to get rid of them all.
 
2 reasons why I am Pro gun:

1) It is our constitutional right to bear arms

2) Guns do not act upon free will when they are used to kill another person. They are inanimate objects incapable of murder, malice or ill will.

A person can use an XBox 360 controller or a PS3 unit to kill another person. Let's outlaw 360 controllers and PS3.
A kid can use a rope to hang himself and commit suicide. Let's outlaw ropes.
A gang member on the street can randomly cut someone's face for gang initiation. Let's outlaw knives.
A murder-minded heiress can use a pillow to smother her rich grandmother. Let's outlaw pillows.
A person can drown another in water. Let's make interaction with water illegal.
A kid can kill his friend by poorly imitating a wrestling move. Let's outlaw wrestling, it is clearly WWE or TNA's fault.
A kid with a warped sense of reality can kill his little sister by trying to imitate a Fatality. Let's ban that horrible Mortal Kombat that clearly influenced that kid and COMMANDED him to murder his little sister.
UH OH...did I hit your rage button with that last one?


See how ridiculous all of the above statements are? Guns are only as dangerous as the person wielding them and are no more dangerous than any other object used for murder, malice or ill-will in the acting person's hands. People in this thread have commented that they "know gun owners who are nut jobs". I happen to know at least 18 people who own guns. None of them are "nut jobs" or "psychos". None of them hunt or willingly take the life of another person or animal. We go to the shooting range for fun. We keep guns for home defense. We're perfectly normal people.

The Truth...it stings but it's still the truth. Those of you who have a logical sense of this question and have a mature standpoint on it as to why it's NOT wrong to own a gun, then I am glad. For those of you immediately taking the "No, guns kill people" stance, grow up and learn more about the subject before making ignorant statements. You are fully within your right to disagree with the ownership of a gun, that is your prerogative. Just don't make asinine statements like "Guns are evil and kill people" because they do not. Yes, the are weapons. They are instruments of killing. But they do not possess free will to make that choice.
 
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Shang_Heihachi said:
2 reasons why I am Pro gun:

1) It is our constitutional right to bear arms

2) Guns do not act upon free will when they are used to kill another person. They are inanimate objects incapable of murder, malice or ill will.

A person can use an XBox 360 controller or a PS3 unit to kill another person. Let's outlaw 360 controllers and PS3.
A kid can use a rope to hang himself and commit suicide. Let's outlaw ropes.
A gang member on the street can randomly cut someone's face for gang initiation. Let's outlaw knives.
A murder-minded heiress can use a pillow to smother her rich grandmother. Let's outlaw pillows.
A person can drown another in water. Let's make interaction with water illegal.
A kid can kill his friend by poorly imitating a wrestling move. Let's outlaw wrestling, it is clearly WWE or TNA's fault.
A kid with a warped sense of reality can kill his little sister by trying to imitate a Fatality. Let's ban that horrible Mortal Kombat that clearly influenced that kid and COMMANDED him to murder his little sister.
UH OH...did I hit your rage button with that last one?


See how ridiculous all of the above statements are? Guns are only as dangerous as the person wielding them and are no more dangerous than any other object used for murder, malice or ill-will in the acting person's hands. People in this thread have commented that they "know gun owners who are nut jobs". I happen to know at least 18 people who own guns. None of them are "nut jobs" or "psychos". None of them hunt or willingly take the life of another person or animal. We go to the shooting range for fun. We keep guns for home defense. We're perfectly normal people.

The Truth...it stings but it's still the truth. Those of you who have a logical sense of this question and have a mature standpoint on it as to why it's NOT wrong to own a gun, then I am glad. For those of you immediately taking the "No, guns kill people" stance, grow up and learn more about the subject before making ignorant statements. You are fully within your right to disagree with the ownership of a gun, that is your prerogative. Just don't make asinine statements like "Guns are evil and kill people" because they do not. Yes, the are weapons. They are instruments of killing. But they do not possess free will to make that choice.
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Guns are designed to shoot, injure and kill. Xbox 360 controllers are not.

Should we sell bombs to the average joe as well? I mean, why not... Going by your logic, people are gonna find a means of killing someone anyway.

Silly silly man.

If someone came at me with a gaming controller held high and a crazy look in his eye, my chances of survival are incredibly high. If someone points a gun at me and pulls the trigger... My chances of survival are very slim.

Don't even compare the two.
 
Shang_Heihachi said:
2 reasons why I am Pro gun:

1) It is our constitutional right to bear arms

2) Guns do not act upon free will when they are used to kill another person. They are inanimate objects incapable of murder, malice or ill will.

A person can use an XBox 360 controller or a PS3 unit to kill another person. Let's outlaw 360 controllers and PS3.
A kid can use a rope to hang himself and commit suicide. Let's outlaw ropes.
A gang member on the street can randomly cut someone's face for gang initiation. Let's outlaw knives.
A murder-minded heiress can use a pillow to smother her rich grandmother. Let's outlaw pillows.
A person can drown another in water. Let's make interaction with water illegal.
A kid can kill his friend by poorly imitating a wrestling move. Let's outlaw wrestling, it is clearly WWE or TNA's fault.
A kid with a warped sense of reality can kill his little sister by trying to imitate a Fatality. Let's ban that horrible Mortal Kombat that clearly influenced that kid and COMMANDED him to murder his little sister.
UH OH...did I hit your rage button with that last one?


See how ridiculous all of the above statements are? Guns are only as dangerous as the person wielding them and are no more dangerous than any other object used for murder, malice or ill-will in the acting person's hands. People in this thread have commented that they "know gun owners who are nut jobs". I happen to know at least 18 people who own guns. None of them are "nut jobs" or "psychos". None of them hunt or willingly take the life of another person or animal. We go to the shooting range for fun. We keep guns for home defense. We're perfectly normal people.

The Truth...it stings but it's still the truth. Those of you who have a logical sense of this question and have a mature standpoint on it as to why it's NOT wrong to own a gun, then I am glad. For those of you immediately taking the "No, guns kill people" stance, grow up and learn more about the subject before making ignorant statements. You are fully within your right to disagree with the ownership of a gun, that is your prerogative. Just don't make asinine statements like "Guns are evil and kill people" because they do not. Yes, the are weapons. They are instruments of killing. But they do not possess free will to make that choice.
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I don't think people are concerned about being beaten to death by an X-Box controller or trying to prevent suicides. I think people are scared of folks who can create a vector between themselves and our vital organs through which a bullet can be propelled from a long distance at great speeds. Guns aren't some benign blunt object where force of will needs to be mustered to end a life. It's a handle and a spout that you point at things to kill them at the push of a button. Simple and easy. Effortless even.

The shooting in Arizona: the gunman acquired his gun legally. Nobody was spared because he wasn't supposed to use them on him. The 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' argument is moot, because nobody would debate that there are bad people out there. The problem is, the bad people don't really need to make much of an effort to do the bad things they want to do with a gun in their hand.

I don't think anti-gun people mean to infer that all gun ownership is bad; I just think we're less informed about all the good gun owners because they wind up on the news less. "Tennesse man shoots bottle, had fun" isn't exactly a buzz worthy headline. Meanwhile, I see somebody gunned down at my local mall, and my first thought is, man, I really wish that guy didn't have that gun.

To be fair, I don't know the solution. I'm pretty much down for all kinds of freedom, but it's not a freedom I personally want to use, and that may actually threaten my life. I do know however that pro-gun people need to come up with more compelling arguments for gun ownership than 'it's in the constitution' and 'we can have one because we're not evil.' Being able to do something in of itself doesn't make it 'right'. It's also legal to lie on the news, but I doubt anybody would call that moral or right. I'm not saying these things should be illegal, just that legality shouldn't be where the conversation stops. A lot of people believe smoking should be illegal, and I think that's bull, it shouldn't be illegal, but I'd still try and have a conversation with them as to whether or not they should smoke.

One argument I can agree on is the whole home-protection thing. Problem is, what does anybody say they buy a gun for if not home protection or hunting? You can't rightly protect your home with an Uzi or an AK-47. So maybe pistols are okay, and more military-grade stuff would be illegal to own for home-protection? I don't know.

Anyway, my point is, you own a gun, you're a decent person. Bully for you. More power to you. Not everyone is as good a dude as you though. Maybe we can find a way to keep them out of the hands of nut jobs before we decide to give them to anybody who passes a test, endures the waiting period, and doesn't have a criminal record. Again, not all gun owners are nut jobs. Just the ones that shoot people. Those are the ones we have a problem with.
 
Shang_Heihachi said:
2 reasons why I am Pro gun:

1) It is our constitutional right to bear arms

2) Guns do not act upon free will when they are used to kill another person. They are inanimate objects incapable of murder, malice or ill will.

A person can use an XBox 360 controller or a PS3 unit to kill another person. Let's outlaw 360 controllers and PS3.
A kid can use a rope to hang himself and commit suicide. Let's outlaw ropes.
A gang member on the street can randomly cut someone's face for gang initiation. Let's outlaw knives.
A murder-minded heiress can use a pillow to smother her rich grandmother. Let's outlaw pillows.
A person can drown another in water. Let's make interaction with water illegal.
A kid can kill his friend by poorly imitating a wrestling move. Let's outlaw wrestling, it is clearly WWE or TNA's fault.
A kid with a warped sense of reality can kill his little sister by trying to imitate a Fatality. Let's ban that horrible Mortal Kombat that clearly influenced that kid and COMMANDED him to murder his little sister.
UH OH...did I hit your rage button with that last one?


See how ridiculous all of the above statements are? Guns are only as dangerous as the person wielding them and are no more dangerous than any other object used for murder, malice or ill-will in the acting person's hands. People in this thread have commented that they "know gun owners who are nut jobs". I happen to know at least 18 people who own guns. None of them are "nut jobs" or "psychos". None of them hunt or willingly take the life of another person or animal. We go to the shooting range for fun. We keep guns for home defense. We're perfectly normal people.

The Truth...it stings but it's still the truth. Those of you who have a logical sense of this question and have a mature standpoint on it as to why it's NOT wrong to own a gun, then I am glad. For those of you immediately taking the "No, guns kill people" stance, grow up and learn more about the subject before making ignorant statements. You are fully within your right to disagree with the ownership of a gun, that is your prerogative. Just don't make asinine statements like "Guns are evil and kill people" because they do not. Yes, the are weapons. They are instruments of killing. But they do not possess free will to make that choice.
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Yes, because we all live in beautiful la-la land where everyone is responsible and forgiving.
Listen bro, you're being VERY inconsiderate of the people who live in rougher areas. We can't all escape the idiots out here who can't take an ass whooping with out feeling the need to put a bullet between someone's eyes.
I tell you what, I'll send you two shirts, one red one blue. You pick which you like and walk to my house. You got a fifty fifty shot of picking the "safe" shirt.

And as for your X-box controller rant, I'm with Ricochet on this one. I ****ing dare you to come at me, swinging a controller with intent to kill. Its better than sitting on a building 50 yards away, looking at my final moments with my family through a scope.

And finally, the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people", It's complete horseshit. Guns are manipulators, a guy sees one and sees an opportunity for power. Humans have always been looking for ways to be more powerful than the guy next to them. We are weak minded, all of us, and guns exploit that.
 
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Ricochetmatt said:
Guns are designed to shoot, injure and kill. Xbox 360 controllers are not.

Should we sell bombs to the average joe as well? I mean, why not... Going by your logic, people are gonna find a means of killing someone anyway.

Silly silly man.

If someone came at me with a gaming controller held high and a crazy look in his eye, my chances of survival are incredibly high. If someone points a gun at me and pulls the trigger... My chances of survival are very slim.

Don't even compare the two.
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I totally agree with this.

I am not anti-gun, I am anti-stupid people, so I don't have an issue with guns themselves, but putting a gun in someone's hands gives them a sense of power they don't have when the gun isn't in their hands.

I've whipped the remote control at my brother when we were kids and, yeah, it stung him like a b!tch, but his life was not in danger. He just escaped with a bruise, but if I had a gun and shot him, he'd be dead.

back said:
And finally, the whole "guns don't kill people, people kill people", It's complete horseshit. Guns are manipulators, a guy sees one and sees an opportunity for power. Humans have always been looking for ways to be more powerful than the guy next to them. We are weak minded, all of us, and guns exploit that.
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Disagree with this. You can put a gun in my hand and I wont abuse the power. You can put a gun in Joe Blow's hand and he goes out and shoots up a school.

Someone who uses a gun with the intent to hurt/kill people already has issues. A normal person who knows right from wrong and can control themselves wont run out and kill people just because they have a gun in their hand. It's like video games. We don't run out and do fatalities on people just because we played Mortal Kombat but someone who already has issues with go and do that. The actions all fall on the individual.
 
XxJadexX said:
Disagree with this. You can put a gun in my hand and I wont abuse the power. You can put a gun in Joe Blow's hand and he goes out and shoots up a school.

Someone who uses a gun with the intent to hurt/kill people already has issues. A normal person who knows right from wrong and can control themselves wont run out and kill people just because they have a gun in their hand. It's like video games. We don't run out and do fatalities on people just because we played Mortal Kombat but someone who already has issues with go and do that. The actions all fall on the individual.
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I wasn't talking about right and wrong, I was talking about desire. Say everything went to hell, and the world gets ****ed up, back to square one for everybody. There are a group of people with more than you, you have nothing, not a scrap of food, not a sip of water. They aren't harming you, they just don't want to share. You find a gun. What will you do with that gun Jade? What would I do? What would any "normal" person do? We would use it. Some may use it differently than others. Using it only to intimidate and scare, and others may use it to send a message. But the matter stays the same.
 
back said:
I wasn't talking about right and wrong, I was talking about desire. Say everything went to hell, and the world gets ****ed up, back to square one for everybody. There are a group of people with more than you, you have nothing, not a scrap of food, not a sip of water. They aren't harming you, they just don't want to share. You find a gun. What will you do with that gun Jade? What would I do? What would any "normal" person do? We would use it. Some may use it differently than others. Using it only to intimidate and scare, and others may use it to send a message. But the matter stays the same.
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It does fall into right and wrong, to different degrees. I'm not saying that every single time someone uses a gun on a person, it is because they don't know the difference between right and wrong. Sometimes, people just get so enraged that they use it in the heat of the moment. Some people are just messed up individuals who don't have a problem killing people. Others see a game or movie and don't understand right from wrong, fact from fiction.

I know it is wrong to go and kill someone and I don't have any mental issues so I am not going to go grab my gun and shoot random people on the streets. Someone who is unstable will grab the gun and go shoot whoever he or she pleases. There are people here who use guns for hunting or other recreational things that does not include using it on other people. They have control and have their minds in the right spot. Hunters use their guns to hunt animals but they also have the control and mindset to not go out and shoot people.

A gun does NOT fire itself and the sense of power falls on the PERSON. Sure, anyone can feel powerful with a gun, no question about it, but it's up to the person how far they go with that power. If I have a gun and you have a gun and we are pointing it at each other, I wont feel powerful unless I have a bigger, better gun than you do. If I have a gun and you have a knife, of course I will feel more powerful. Some people also don't have it in them to even shoot a gun so the feeling of power just because a person has a gun in their hand isn't always a correct statement.

I could NEVER shoot a person. Hell, I don't even think I could do it if someone is attacking me. Just the thought of a gun in my hand, unless it's a video game gun, sends shivers down my spine. Not sure what I would do if I absolutely had to use a gun but I hope that situation never comes up. Don't mind looking at real guns but being around them and even touching one does not settle well with me.

Anything can become a weapon, not just guns. They all have different methods of hurting/killing but they can still be a weapon. It's all about who is in possession of it. I could walk up to you in your bathtub and drop a plugged in radio so you electrocute yourself.
 
My Knee Grows said:
It's a shame that problems are solved by guns and not ass-whippings anymore...
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It's too bad that, in the information age, people still think violence is a good way to solve problems.

Ricochetmatt said:
Guns are designed to shoot, injure and kill. Xbox 360 controllers are not.

Should we sell bombs to the average joe as well? I mean, why not... Going by your logic, people are gonna find a means of killing someone anyway.

Silly silly man.

If someone came at me with a gaming controller held high and a crazy look in his eye, my chances of survival are incredibly high. If someone points a gun at me and pulls the trigger... My chances of survival are very slim.

Don't even compare the two.
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If they're wanting to kill you, they're gonna use whatever they can to do so, so yeah, people WILL find any means to kill others with. It's human nature.

Think about this: knives are designed for stabbing and cutting meat, but they're used to kill people, too. If some maniac had one held high with a crazed look in his eye, your chances are also very slim, but knives are generally used for better purposes. Same thing it true for guns. Most of us don't abuse them, and that the big difference.

You do realize that the 2nd Amendment was created to protect us from the government, right?

back said:
I wasn't talking about right and wrong, I was talking about desire. Say everything went to hell, and the world gets ****ed up, back to square one for everybody. There are a group of people with more than you, you have nothing, not a scrap of food, not a sip of water. They aren't harming you, they just don't want to share. You find a gun. What will you do with that gun Jade? What would I do? What would any "normal" person do? We would use it. Some may use it differently than others. Using it only to intimidate and scare, and others may use it to send a message. But the matter stays the same.
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You're "talking about desire" but then use a example of necessity to back your point up? FAIL.

As for the over-all argument, guns are a necessity since we have them.
 
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It's too late to ban guns. Even if they are outlawed for civilian use, some unscrupulous individual who really wants a gun can acquire it through illegal means, it only makes law-abiding citizens even more vulnerable. We can't rely on the police to be there all the time. However, there should be some limitation on what kinds of weapons who can carry; pistols, shotguns, and hunting rifles are okay, but assault rifles and sub-machine guns should be illegal for civilian use.
 
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Ricochetmatt said:
Guns are designed to shoot, injure and kill. Xbox 360 controllers are not.

Should we sell bombs to the average joe as well? I mean, why not... Going by your logic, people are gonna find a means of killing someone anyway.

Silly silly man.

If someone came at me with a gaming controller held high and a crazy look in his eye, my chances of survival are incredibly high. If someone points a gun at me and pulls the trigger... My chances of survival are very slim.

Don't even compare the two.
Click to expand...

Riccochet, I normally agree with you, but your logic is not quite on point on that last statement. I happen to be a doctor specializing in a "different" kind of discipline and I can assure you there are much easier and lethal ways to kill someone than with a gun. You assume that a blunt object can't kill or incite fear in you as much as something that yields a projectile. Remember, the tool is only as lethal as the expertise of the individual yielding it. If you don't believe me, I guess we need to have you visit the autopsy room on a particular busy night and have you be the judge of what a person with "a crazy look in his eye" can do...even with a hair brush. I wonder what you'd think if you saw me walking towards you with a small container of baby powder...i mean, thats a lot less intimidating than a videogame controller.
 
christ... i can't believe we have topics like this!!... is it to intentionally incite hatred/ill feelings/resentment among forum members??

while we're at it...

abortion= yes/no
does god excist = yes/no
euthanasia = yes/no

etc....
 
Craig Dobson said:
christ... i can't believe we have topics like this!!... is it to intentionally incite hatred/ill feelings/resentment among forum members??

while we're at it...

abortion= yes/no
does god excist = yes/no
euthanasia = yes/no

etc....
Click to expand...

I don't see anything in this thread that's hateful, but I DO think it's crappy for you to shit on an otherwise cool thread. The title of this thread is explicit of its contents, so if you're not into these types of discussion, don't click on it or don't respond.
 
It's just a discussion.....I don't see people 'hating' anyone else? If people get ill feelings towards a simple discussion, they should probably go outside and get some friends. It's okay for people to disagree. I don't see anyone name calling or telling someone else to fck off and die, I just see an exchange of ideas....if you see anything I am missing, please let me know.

drapture17 said:
Riccochet, I normally agree with you, but your logic is not quite on point on that last statement. I happen to be a doctor specializing in a "different" kind of discipline and I can assure you there are much easier and lethal ways to kill someone than with a gun. You assume that a blunt object can't kill or incite fear in you as much as something that yields a projectile. Remember, the tool is only as lethal as the expertise of the individual yielding it. If you don't believe me, I guess we need to have you visit the autopsy room on a particular busy night and have you be the judge of what a person with "a crazy look in his eye" can do...even with a hair brush. I wonder what you'd think if you saw me walking towards you with a small container of baby powder...i mean, thats a lot less intimidating than a videogame controller.
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Seriously, you are spot on. I've read some of the most wicked murders done by things people would probably laugh about and not even imagine it as any sort of weapon.

My grandma's sister died when she was 28 because her husband poisoned her food....it doesn't take a gun to kill people and feel 'powerful'. I'll bet he felt pretty damn powerful knowing she was about to eat poisonous food and she had absolutely no idea.
 
Exactly my point Jade. We need not look any further than every single news outlet than to see that our biggest fear on this "Fight against Terrorism" is microscopic organisms and chemical poisons, not the 120mm cannons nor long range sniper rifles.

Also, this thread is not meant to instill hate or start arguments. On the contrary, I feel that we're having a perfectly good conversation without making personal attacks. Some may say that we're tearing down a few stereotypes about gamers. We all come from different countries, incredibly varied disciplines and yet we are able to be a bunch of clowns and turn off or brains, yet at the same time we're capable of having a mature, serious conversation about a real world topic...maybe the United Nations should sign up to TRMK and learn a thing or two.
 
drapture17 said:
Riccochet, I normally agree with you, but your logic is not quite on point on that last statement. I happen to be a doctor specializing in a "different" kind of discipline and I can assure you there are much easier and lethal ways to kill someone than with a gun. You assume that a blunt object can't kill or incite fear in you as much as something that yields a projectile. Remember, the tool is only as lethal as the expertise of the individual yielding it. If you don't believe me, I guess we need to have you visit the autopsy room on a particular busy night and have you be the judge of what a person with "a crazy look in his eye" can do...even with a hair brush. I wonder what you'd think if you saw me walking towards you with a small container of baby powder...i mean, thats a lot less intimidating than a videogame controller.
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While I can agree household objects can be dangerous depending on it's use. I remember a news report of a person who bludgeoned a cop with a can of soda. However, a gun's tactical advantage of range is nothing to sneeze at. A person who is proficient with a gun can control a lot of space, and take down foes more easily than someone with a melee weapon. If guns were not efficient at disabling foes, it would not be used by the military or any other profession that uses weapons.
 
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