Superman can be beaten by MK fighters. Reasons.

Goraka

Goraka

New member
1: As has been said, he is weak against magic. Not only has Boon mentioned that the cataclysm will be caused by magic, there's also Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, both sorcerors, Raiden and Fujin, gods, Ermac and Mileena, made from magic etc...
2: Superman gets his power from the earth's yellow sun, on krypton, under the red sun, everyone was normal. Haven't seen much daylight in Outworld, unless you go up really high.
3: Look at Armageddon. These characters wield weapons the size of motorbikes with one hand as if they were weightless. They can punch down stone pillars. They can knock people through walls. They aren't average people.
 
I don't think Superman is "weak" to magic, it just has the properties to hurt him, unlike physical blows. What I mean is, Kryptonite is a weakness, magic a vulnerability. Unless I've completely misinterpreted the DC series. @_@

I complete agree on points 2 and 3 though.
 
Also, Sub-zero and scorpion both have magic properties. Scorpion was resurrected through magic and sub-zero has his mastery over cold from his lin kuei heritage.:stupido2:
 
Some fighters draw their powers from their inner energy rather then magic... Those guys are screwed.
 
I think the universes have different properties. In MKA it was said that ALL the fighters drew on the energy that binds the realms. That said, perhaps that is considered "magic" energy in the DC universe and hence has the same effect on those weak to magic in the DCU.
 
MKRayden said:
mk characters overpower again Dc even any fightinGames
Click to expand...

The reason why id choose MK over game like SC or Tekken.

Also, I'm not a DC fan (and haven't been watching Smallville much too), but what exactly does Kryptonite do to Superman? Drain his powers?
 
It's radioactive, and kryptonians are really sensetive to it. It drains kryptonians and physically hurts them, and if exposed for a few hours will kill them. It has the same effect on humans, but in a much larger time-frame.

Don't believe anything on Smallville. It's like the MK Conquest of Superman. It means nothing.
 
I can't speak as to how true this 'Superman is weak to magic' business holds up, but I can say this:

If it looks like a deus ex machina and it sounds like a deus ex machina, it probably is a deus ex machina.

The way Ed speaks of it, it sounds like someone at DC Comics was strapped to find a plausible explanation as to why Superman couldn't defeat everyone in the MK roster with both arms and both legs tied behind his back (Which, as I understand it, seems to be a common problem with the poor folks who choose to write Superman comics- how do you pose a threat to a virtually unbeatable guy without always resorting to the sun or Kryptonite?). It feels like someone put up a dartboard with four or five random "this *might* explain why Supes isn't running at 100%" reasons and then hoped that a friendly round of Office Darts would yield their answer.

That said, if you'll step into the Wayback Machine, Mr. Peabody, to the year 1992, you'll recall that Raiden was a full-fledged Thunder God in the original MK, invited to compete in the tournament by Shang Tsung himself. If you can, go back and read John Tobias's comic- Raiden accepts Shang's invitation, but is warned that Shang Tsung's island is under Shang Tsung's control- i.e. you can make yourself look like a human and still have all your godly powers but if Johnny Cage punches you in the testicles, you're gonna feel it, Thunder God or not. How else would we be able to suspend our disbelief unless there was some form of rationalization for what we were seeing? Were we actually supposed to believe Johnny Cage, Sonya or Kano could pose legitimate threats to a friggin' Thunder God? Not likely. But on Shang Tsung's island, what Shang says is law and if Raiden accepts the invite, he must adhere.

Don't believe me? Go back and read Raiden's ending from that game. He invites the other gods to join in the fun and they bring about the END of the world. We've been spoon-fed so much of this "Raiden gives up his immortal status to become mortal and help the scrappy Earthrealmers beat the bad guys" nonsense that we've forgotten that he, Raiden, used to basically *be* the Superman of the MK universe. It wasn't until MK II that he starting being the Mick to Liu Kang's Rocky and all that.

I digress. All I'm really saying is while it feels like a flimsy excuse for Superman to fight, almost every fighting game is filled with flimsy excuses to fight. Not just that, but if the game itself turns out to be fun or even great (You know, the opposite of "lame / sucky / stupid", all these wonderful negative predictions that seem to based off of watching the trailer and then generating bile on a message board), then who really cares one way or the other why Superman would want to mix it up with his fellow superheroes or how most of the MK crew would pose a threat to him. To borrow from a great TV theme song: "Just repeat to yourself: it's just a game, I should really just relax."
 
For someone with such a low post count your words have the ring of truth. Superman has always had weaknesses and he did DIE at one point if you recall. Plus we don't know, maybe the MK universe has different strength thresholds. For all we know, every character in MK has superman's strength in the DC universe. They are different UNIVERSES. Hell I've seen examples of MK characters completely ignoring OUR world's laws of physics.
 
Absolutely no arguments here, Glamador. I've just always find it odd that people who call themselves 'fans' would rather decry successive entries in a series because they disagree with the game on a conceptual level, rather than actually, you know, *play* the game and say something along the lines of "The control felt tight and the graphics were fine and the music was appropriately ambient but I just couldn't get into the fighting system. I prefer the fighting in _insert_other_game_here_ as opposed to this game."

If MK VS DCU doesn't set the fighting game world on fire with its fighting mechanics, that's fine with me- I mean, MK continues to have its loyal opposition no matter how finely tuned the combat is or how interesting the story line becomes. Shouts of "It's not Tekken! / Soul Calibur! / Street Fighter!" can always be heard by the so-called fighting game elite who seem to have forgotten that games - and, indeed, Mortal Kombat is still a game at the end of the day - are meant to be fun. I can't honestly say that I haven't enjoyed every entry in the MKverse on one level or another. Are they the most technically complex fighting games ever developed? I'm hard-pressed to say "Yes". But are they alot of fun to play, whether solo or with someone else? Damn right they are. Not only that but, as it pertains to story, when I'm in the midst of a 2 player bout, I could really care less why Reptile is even in this particular game or what trials and tribulations led Cyrax to shed his cybernetic headgear or why Sub-Zero continues to look like an older version of George Clooney. All I care about is kicking the other guy's ass or getting my ass kicked and having fun while doing it.

And, hey, maybe Ed and Co. have a really interesting explanation for the why's and how's of Superman mixing it up. I still feel that saying "Magic makes it possible!" sounds like a flimsy deus ex machina, but if the game turns out to be fun, then sign me up for the "Magic makes it possible" philosophy.
 
I think you might misunderstand my motivations...I care very deeply for the story. I want to know exactly why Reptile is there and who knocked Cyrax's mask off and why George Clooney got ice powers. Turns out we don't know why Reptile is in MKA, but Sub looks like Clooney because his dragon medallion aged him, and Cyrax can take his own mask off as seen in MK:Gold.

Do I want MK to play well? Yes I do but it hasn't since UMK3. If I was just kicking a guy's ass I would get very very bored very very quickly. Motivation is a key point. It's one reason I don't play Tekken. Tekken bores me. Street Fighter bores me. MK is rich in history and it's style is unique.

I don't want another storyline disaster like MKA. The point of my above post is that there are very plausible explanations that can work very well and keep the story straight as to why 1 character can defeat another. I make these suggestions not to say that the story can be crappy and I'll forgive it, I make them to show that the story CAN be good.
 
Actually, I think you may have misunderstood me as well. I was commenting that, in general, if a game is fun to play, I can look past storyline flaws (in this case, if the explanation that DC and Midway come up with isn't exactly Shakespearean in quality, but the game is fun, then I'll absolutely excuse it). Don't take that to mean that I don't want a great, engaging story - I do. I felt that MKDA and MKD were really on to something. Dark Raiden? Undead Liu Kang? Sub-Zero returning to his cryomancer roots and becoming Grand Master of the reborn Lin Kuei? Count me in, man. I thought Deception featured some exceptionally tight writing for a fighting game- Mileena baits Baraka, kills him, only to realize too late that she just killed a lookalike Tarkatan and that Baraka is right behind her? Hell yes!

I'm all for whatever Midway / DC has cooked up to explain the crossover. My point earlier was that A) I'm well aware that in this world there are fans who would rather pass judgment on a game that isn't even out yet, B) That I can't imagine trying to function that way, just arbitrarily saying things to the effect of, "I don't like how that looks" or "I don't like the idea of Superman fighting Scorpion or Sub-Zero" and then following that thought up with "I'd better just hate this game now in case I accidentally play it and realize that it's actually a well put together game and I have to admit that I'm wrong"."

I fully agree with you about how in the MK realm alone the laws of Earth physics are defied on a daily basis, that all sorts of improbable things occur all the time and we, the dedicated MK players, can absolutely suspend our disbelief and say "That's the norm" but the moment someone suggests crossing over with DC comics, with another realm of super-powered, physics-defying individuals, people suddenly get up in arms about how impossible it should be, or how lame it seems. Unbelievable.
 
I may have to respectfully disagree with you about MK's history being described as 'rich'; my sole disagreement being the folks at Midway can't seem to decide exactly how MK's history goes. I say this without intent for argument and with my tongue firmly placed in cheek, but please, if you would, consider and remember the following:

-The MK Armageddon Bio Fiasco -or- "Sorry guys, we forgot to do that part of the game before we began programming; here's a few bios to get you started and we'll leave it to you to imagine the rest of them." This is as close as I'll get to being flat-out pissed off here but as MKA is / was ostensibly the final game in the original MK storyline, leaving the bios out was kind of a slap in the face to those of us who stuck by MK from the beginning. As much as I support Boon and Co., I found this act to be inexcusable, intentional or not.

-The Scorpion As Sub-Zero's Guardian Arch: Scorpion witness Sub-Zero spare *someone* (it's never mentioned who), realizes this is Sub-Zero's brother and decides to be his guardian (MKII), continues to be his guardian (UMK3 / Trilogy) and then decides that he needs vengeance again (MK4). Yes, I know there's that argument of "Well, that only happened if Scorpion won MK II and he didn't, Liu Kang did" but that doesn't really hold water here: why would they mention it in UMK3 unless there was intent to do something with it? We've seen in all of the MK games that some endings are considered canon, regardless of who defeated the Big Bad at the end of the game. Scorpion needn't win MK II for his ending to be considered canon, at least until MK4 when Ed and Co. decided to retcon it entirely.

-Johnny Cage is dead (MK3), is alive (MKT), is dead but then alive (MK4). 'Nuff said.

-Raiden is a slightly arrogant thunder god out to show Shang Tsung how mighty he is (MK) who wants to stop Shao Kahn (MK II) who becomes the Mick to Liu Kang's Rocky by helping the scrappy Earthrealmers fight the Nazis and win the day (MK3 and upward) until the day where he fails to notice Shujinko being puppeted around by Onaga and decides vigilantism is the way to go (MKD).

-Baraka may or may not have been sliced in half by Kung Lao's razor-lined fedora but, it's OK, someone had some giant staples lying around to fix him (MKGold) and, hey, it was only a flesh wound; his body was patched up by MKD and never mentioned again.

-Cyrax is stuck in the desert (MK3) but can warp the fabric of space and time to spar with opponents while he's still stuck (UMK3). Schroedinger's Cyberninja perhaps?

-The original Mortal Kombat was a one-on-one tournament (MK1) but in actuality it was a free-for-all melee (Opening Cinema from MK Shaolin Monks). MK II was also a tournament (MK II) except for Liu Kang and Kung Lao who went on wacky misadventures in the plains of Outworld, occasionally fighting kombatants. Fact: Kintaro was defeated by Liu Kang repeatedly rolling into him and occasionally launching a volley of ki blasts / fireballs. Hand to God, I've seen it.

-When I mentioned Sub-Zero looking like George Clooney, I'm referring to how in his ending from MK II, unmasked Sub-Zero looks suspiciously like Josh Tsui (who may have written the book on Lightwave 3D but, I safely imagine, doesn't know martial arts on the level needed for motion capture in MK3) and he's flat-out played by John Turk in MK3 but the 3D render they used for MKDA and MKD looks more like George Clooney than John Turk.

Again, I'm not looking to argue, other than to say MK's history, such as it is, is far from a rich tapestry. Patchwork quilt is a little closer to home. I love every minute of it - C'mon, Mileena swallows a jar of nails? - but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of it, too. And, as I already said, if the story itself doesn't make a lick of sense, all that matters is the game being fun.
 
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to be real i don't think they will make superman have his weaknesses and strengths. i think they will make his health equal to everyone else, but if they did have that, then probably magic should kill him.
 
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